he suggests selective civil disobedience when brewer karats rule oppress us. we need to resist. since government always john: reported to be called for an end to america's embargo. >> if what you word doing the summer for two years it's trying to find something new. john: is that right? >> these people say no. they say obama is that traitor and a coward. and he isn't happy either. >> obama should have turned the plane around. he should have turned it around and said bye bye. john: at the same time some americans say cuba has a better system than america does. >> capitalism is an evil system and this presidential candidate has had communism's bread lines
are good. capitalism starve the poor? and america poor people struggle. some of our politicians are confused. socialism, capitalism, the embargo lessons from cuba. that's our show tonight. and now, john stossel. john: in america today socialism is hot. these t-shirts with a picture of a popular and trendy young people and recently in cuba our president had no problem with posing with his hand on his heart right in front of a giant mural depict in j.. the president did at least criticize some of cuban socialist practice. >> it should be easier to business in cuba.
the internet should be available so cubans can connect to the wider world. john: those things are chewing a whole bunch of other things which need to change their cubans hope to have the kind of fugitive people deserve. socialism in cuba has wrecked lives are for 55 years when the president criticized cuba castro pushed back and said americans suffer because we don't enjoy the benefits of socialism and president obama kind of agreed. >> in his view making sure everybody is getting a decent education or health care has basic security in old age and those are human rights as well. i first of all do not disagree with him. john: so socialism is good? listening to some democrats planned for america, free education, it's clear that many are quite comfortable as socialist people who have lived under socialism or communism
rarely feel that way. cuban exiles, americans property was stolen by castro are the most vehement in their hatred of socialism and they are furious that obama even went to cuba. >> we feel disgusted. we feel betrayed. it's the end it's the liberal press. john: this woman in florida got upset when she saw these family pictures of obama and rob castro. >> he is a murderer. i feel awful. john: i understand how she feels but i don't fully understand the opposition to lifting the embargo. we have tried to cut them off, to change their government for 55 years and it hasn't worked. i get that they hate castro but shouldn't our policy be something that works? i thought everyone could shine a light on what's going on and fox business anchor david esmond spent years covering it for "the wall street journal" so what's going on? where so many cuban exiles, not
the majority i just saw, opposed to lifting the embargo? >> partly because they have so many dimly histories that have been impacted terribly in ways as the woman just said that go to the back of some of them have been murdered by this cuban government. raul himself was an executioner executioner. you sitake businesspeople out back and blow their brains out, personally he did that so when you have this family connection to a totalitarian regime like cuba you tend to put the emotions before the head. having said that i understand your sympathy with wanting to get rid of the embargo. hasn't gotten rid of castro. we have added are almost six years in the castro's are still in power there. on the other hand businesses have been in cuba for decades as well. there are a lot of spanish companies and canadian companies that do business and they have had almost zero impact on improving the lives of the cuban people.
they definitely have zero impact in getting rid of the congress government. john: there's not a complete embargo right now, let's clarify that there's hardly any embargo because they trade with europe and spain especially latin america canada, asia. it's only the united states yet the trade has been nice and good for some people, some private citizens who have had better lights? >> there and to deprive its citizens. everybody's a citizen of the government. everybody's essentially owned by the government of cuba. you have to have all of your food and meals provided by these ration cards. it's illegal to fish in cuba because all of the fish are supposedly on by the cuban government so in a foreign company goes to cuba to do business they have to pay the government. they can pay the workers themselves. they pay the government and the government pays the workers $20 a month. that's the cuban workers earn so the cuban workers are screwed, the companies are screwed
because they have to pay regular salaries for the cuban workers. the only people the benefit from the foreign companies in cuba is the government itself and the people who work for the government to. john: i would argue that they may be even worse off without those jobs. you after much negotiation went there. >> it took me about 10 years. finally i was led in. they knew i wasn't happy about fidel castro and i had written a lot of negative articles about him but when the soviet union died in the early 1990s and all of the money the cuban was getting become a 60% of the gdp tried up overnight virtually they were so desperate that they let me in for a couple of weeks. john for people for pretty willing to speak up against the state? >> they were that point because they believe like the soviet union cuba's communist government would die which it didn't. that shocked them but at that brief there was a window for a year and a half where they
believe that what happened in the soviet union and eas unit -- what happened in cuba. john: the theory behind the embargo is the economic pressure will inspire people to vote for -- and here's senator ted cruz. >> regime is trickling president obama stepped in to throw an economic lifeline and i think that is a serious danger to our national security. john: danger to national security? i just don't get that. cuba is not a threat to our national security. >> for one thing they weren't involved in drug trafficking is a lot of governments are. but they also worked funding terrorist organizations all over latin america including the farc and the m. 19 in columbia. it's ironic the president said maybe we could get cuba's help in the peace process in columbia when in fact the cuban government was supporting the terrorists that were trying to overthrow democracy in columbia
so they are funding terrorists and they have funded terrorists in the united states as well including the puerto rican terrorists who have blown up bombs and kill people in the united states. john: there's no evidence the terrorism we worry about now is being supported by cuba? >> they have close relations with iran and iran is involved with hezbollah and hezbollah is a terrorist organization so i would say they are connected with the terrace. you go to havana and a watering hole for terrorists from all over the world. when the ira was alive they were there in the plo was involved and have their operations there and the sandinistas controlled nicaragua. i would say there's a connection with terrorists. john: back to the embargo. most of the congress did not support enlisting it and i'm not fully understanding their logic and let's talk to one of them. albio serious this -- do you
want to keep this embargo? is going to work this ear next year? >> well, i am all for negotiating. i will negotiate the embargo put the cuban people have to give something in return. john will get trade. >> what are the people get in queue but? john: they benefit from mutual trade. >> 85% of the economy is the military. if you go into business in cuba you have to do is this what the government. the government gives you $20 a month. that's not the kind of cube i want to. john: how old were you when you came here? >> i was 11 years old. john came with your parents? >> i still remember when they came into my house and when we got our visas they came back to make sure everything in the house that they took inventory was there. we couldn't give it away or sell it. everything belong to the government. if you have anything missing --
i remember when they searched my house because they accuse my father of porting merchandise. john: i guess that you hate them and you don't want them to get more money from trade but how do you apply arguments like this from senator rand paul? >> we trade with china, we. with vietnam and the. trade with laos yet we don't trade with cuba. i think trade might let things up and also helped to topple the castro's. >> all those countries, i don't want a system for cuba. i don't want a system where you can't express yourself. i don't want to cuba where you can't have elections. we are perpetuating a system similar to what is in cuba now. john: so we shouldn't trade with the soviet union of our china either? >> i do not agree with trading
with cuba for the sake of trading. the history of the embargo who, why not use it? we are not going to force something from the cuban government. john: there was a time in the early 90s when they considered going to chinese the cuban government. they decided not to and china as flowing a larger private economy. >> you can uncertain property. you cannot do that in cuba and to your point congressman if there was a way of negotiating a deal where you would force the government to allow companies u.s. companies dealing there to deal directly with the people said the government would pay the people, i would be more open to any embargo then. john: do you agree the people who saved obama should not have gone to cuba? >> he is the president of the united states. he made the decision. i didn't agree with it. i believe the optics were there.
it's a typical macho cuba thing to show central america north and south america we are it. but he is the president he makes the decisions. we have to abide by it. john: donald trump agrees with your opinion? >> i don't agree with donald trump. let's keep that straight. he is a snake oil salesman. he says anything to get a reaction. should he have gone? in my view i don't think he should have gone but i certainly don't agree with donald trump. john: me neither. as a research this show i watch old newsreel senate was struck by how the press of the time glorified cuba before communism. >> it was not long ago the cuba was a different kind of country. the hotel's the mecca tourist who plot from around the world and pleasure seekers that
contributed millions to the island's economy and then castro came. the sounds of joy were submerged by the sounds of shooting. castro convinced the cuban people he was their liberator and they freely gave him the reins of government or freehand when he announced he was a marxist. john: i think today a lot of people would say a marxist, so what but i'm struck by what they say about the old regime. it wasn't a free market regime. he was corrupt. >> absolutely. when he left cuba he went to the treasury and stole $300 million. the first wall ever built in madrid was built with batista money. john: this is what leads to communist revolutions. >> castro got in on a lie with the cuban people. he declared himself a marxist. after he was there and then he went to ops and there's a system
we have today. sad that's an important point because it not only happened in cuba but happened in nicaragua this sandinistas. the cubans business people believed originally and fidel castro who at first said he was anti-communist and it wasn't until year or so after the revolution he announced to us a marxist and the same with this sandinistas. people walk by socialism if you give it to them. you have to candy coated. john: thank you congressman sires. adrina segment follow me on twitter at john stossel and use the hashtag give me liberty or like my facebook page so you can post on my wall. we want to know what you think. coming up the presidential candidate who once went out of his way to praise communist regimes. >> no one denies that they are building health clinics. health care nicaragua is health care nicaragua is obsolete.
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t-shirt, there is, not realized that che described himself as a cold killing machine that he was was also a racist banning western music. just because che with you doesn't mean he is a good guy. i once pointed that out on the tv show and i was surprised when on the web the video was watch more than 3 million times. lots of them were watched by people in latin america. they understand the evil done by comments like che or maybe it's because it just was so entertaining. this michael lind hand of "the daily beast". you have now done research that shows one presidential candidate has gone out of his way. praises for seems like this. >> who people say about bernie sanders is bernie sanders is a democratic socialist which you know when somebody says that to me i will say look i don't support democratic socialist.
lived in a country with democratic socialism for several years. sweden. i didn't have to wait in bread lines are or anything but i started looking into his comments when he was the mayor of burlington. he was this guy who write that doesn't like to speak about his foreign policy. when he was the mayor of arlington and he spoke about foreign policy at an airport and it mostly on issues of nicaragua and cuba. john: tell us what bernie said about nicaragua and still says that cuba. >> health care nicaragua is not free. mortality has been greatly reduced. john: paradise. >> yeah, sounds great. i have long said that i'm going to name them michael moynihan casts. if you have a totalitarian
ideology give people free health care and you just have to work until the clinic. it doesn't have the patience in the dominicans curdled issues by saying they have free health care, they have free education they have letters a rates that are high. that for some reason is okay. why for some reason the swedes and the danes and the norwegians managed to have socialized medicine and you can actually both for opposition parties and say whatever you want without being thrown in jail. i don't understand that quite yet he. john: i don't get what he does make that distinction. i guess now he does. he says i'm talking about denmark denmark but bernie says the communists make things more fair in latin america. landowners are controlling all the farms. they spread the wealth. >> for the first time in their lives they have something, nobody denies they are making significant progress.
>> nobody denies that. in the 70s, came to power in 1979 and they overthrew a terrible dictatorship and they replaced it with another dictatorship. when the nicaraguans were allowed to vote for the first time in a free election in 1989 and 1990 they had a rigged election but the idea that these people love this stuff, he says the people love it. how do we allow this -- how about we allow them to vote on these things? john: didn't they vote or take a back in recently? >> he did and for some reason bernie sanders aren't backing the current ortega who opposes abortion is has made peace with the catholic church and basically but he has been doing is what he is sized and stolen money from the treasury. john wrote that you wish to some reporter would ask bernie do you believe bread lines are assigned
if economic logic in that you were joking but bernie really said this about communism in nicaragua. >> sometimes american journalist talk about how bad a country is with people lining up. that's a good thing. in other countries people don't line up. they're rich get the food of the poor starve to death. john: so it's good that there are lines waiting to get food. >> in a piece i wrote it left us alone because what he said in response to that is the height of absurdity. to say there are bread lines because food is fresh and and when you get your rations you don't get very much that is a positive thing. i don't think you could tell that to the american people running for president in 2016. john could sell it to some. thank you mike. coming up another communist idea that many americans are possessed about. >> we also have more wealth and
john: part of a bill of communism that wealth and income inequality. communism promises everything will be shared equally. sound like some political candidates in this country. >> we do have to take on income inequality. >> more it income and wealth inequality than any other major country on earth. john: more than any major country on earth? were the records that's wrong according to the cia. china who has more inequality and so does mexico and brazil. some are people have gotten really rich and america and the gap between them and the poor has lightened and that feels
wrong to most people will. but it shouldn't says -- of the and rhine institute. ayn rand. the misguided fight against income inequality. and equality is good? >> inequalities and expression of freedom. we look at a group of people they are all different. they have different abilities in different fields. john: government will even it out with the different skills. >> will how do you make me and bill gates equal and wealth? you have to steal his stuff or give it to a bunch of people. the only way to achieve equality of outcome is by using force some for the benefit of others. i feel a quality is one of the most evil ideas and all ideas that anybody has come up with and you see that an communism. what did they do? they kill, they maim.
that's what inequality necessitates and did they reduce inequality? >> well and you take statistic that happens is lots of people who are equally poor and a few people and members of the communist leadership are very wealthy. i put it in quotes because it's not real wealth, it's all stolen. john: i'm upset that are politicians so get the facts right. hillary and bernie say the rich get richer while the poor got poorer. the rich get richer but look at the data, the poor and middle class they get richer too. just not as much and it's not just democrats you get this wrong. republicans tutu. working families wages have stagnated for 40 years despite all the promises of all the politicians. >> the middle class is doing worse than some before. john: to be honestly rich have gotten richer and the working people are not doing better. who why do they get this from? >> gazette has populist appeal
right now and there are real problems in america. the economy is not growing fast the mobility poor people rising up is not as good as it should be and some rich people got rich because of cronyism. all of those are real problems. it has nothing to do with the gap. the solution is not more equality. the solution is freedom. the solution is reduce poverty by freeing up entrepreneurial spirit to poor people by eliminating licensing laws will and minimum wages. there's so much cronyism. get the government out of the business of business. get the government out of the way so entrepreneurs and businessmen can. wealth. john: at that happens it probably would continue be true that some rich people get much richer and most people would go up a little. >> i have no idea if we would be
more than equal or less than equal, who cares? inequality doesn't matter. to solve the problems that exist in the solution seems to lie. >> it is same. more liberty, more freedom for capitalism. we took a western world which is all poor except for a few aristocrats and everybody got richer. some people got richer faster but they got richer faster by selling products that all of them benefited from. the book we mentioned waller's -- and rk rowling. she became a billionaire. every time we bought a harry potter book will we made inequality worse. the we'd benefited spiritually and we gave up 20 bucks because we got the benefit by reading the book and she got rich amec in all of our lives better.
that should be celebrated. we should be celebrating inequality when it comes from voluntary trade. john: i celebrated in your new book celebrates it, and equality, ron berg. next the rolling stones are playing in cuba, right now and they are -- are they more of a threat to castro than the embargo has been? my next guest says maybe. music took down the soviet union. who will. >> unique american creation had nothing to do with bombs or missiles will or even politics missiles will or even politics really are.
q. but it's good to think about the last communist regime which was the soviet union. many conservatives that have failed because of ronald reagan's military and that probably did play a part but economics consumerism and even music may have played a bigger part. that's a theme of rocking the wall a story of music's part in bringing down the berlin wall. >> would finally preach that wall in part was the most innocent and unlikely thing of all, the unique american creation that had nothing to do with bombs or missiles are even politics really. rock 'n roll music. >> rock 'n roll is freedom. >> mic musician larry schweikert helped make that film and here curious when he was a drummer with rampage and here he is before his band opened for
steppenwolf. here he is at the bottom picture look even scruffy or and here he is today. now is a professor of history at the university of dayton. you have clean yourself up. >> no hair john, no hair. john: so what did you learn? >> what i learned was that rock 'n roll music that a key role in helping to undermine communism. we learned this from the people we interviewed all across eastern europe and what is really interesting is that rock affected them even when they could understand the lyrics because the essence of rock 'n roll is very structure of it is different than most other music forms and if you start the music together as a band at the end of music together as a band but in between you have to solo and that stretch of individualism is what attracted everybody to rock. john: your fama but the soviet union you were professor that
took your students to attract a rush for further wall came down and the strip the professor describes the scene with a russian student. >> steve some -- steve said something to the effect of communism. he is going to start a war and then there was applause and the russian kid lowered his voice and he said do you have any duran duran tapes? john: different regimes have different ways of dealing with rock music. >> they did. the soviets tried to co-opt it. you might not believe this they actually had a ministry of rock and the soviet union. if that's not straight out of that jack black movie i don't know what is. many regimes tried to -- good
east germans were harsh and trying to repress this stuff but we talked to a rock drummer in hungary three he later became friends with mikhail gorbachev and gorbachev visited him and said rock 'n roll music helped bring down the berlin wall. john: tonight as we speak are whirling stones are performing in havana. do you think islamic a difference when the embargo hasn't? >> well i wonder if castro will get up there when they do sympathy for the devil, that would be pretty appropriate, right next. john: for years the voice of america which was supposed to convert people under time is regimes played classical music. in 67 they switch to rock and you said that made a difference? >> it made a key difference. most of our witnesses said they picked up rock 'n roll. you had to make sure at the end of the night you put your radio
up and you not only put it up but you turn the dial away from voice of america because of the police came here, they found the dial on voice of america they would haul you off to jail. everybody heard voice of america radio free europe. john: tell the story about the atlanta band that played in east berlin and the german commandant became on the bus. >> a punk rock group from atlanta georgia georgia played in berlin two weeks before the wall fell. and they would take their tour bus over and put mirrors underneath the bus in the commandant came on and said glenn murdoch head of the band to the back of the bus. he didn't know if they were going to get shot or whether the guys are looking around saying keep this quiet. he opened his jacket and he pulls out their finest album and he said you autographed? one at a time because the band
back autographing. next time i can only fit one album at a time under my jacket. john: the power of music rate thank you larry schweikert paid next come the good news about free enterprise in cuba. >> air bnb gaining traction in one the food lover's heart... the book the art lover's heart... the coffee lover's heart... the nature lover's heart... the animal lover's heart... the music lover's heart... all of them happy, healthy. but the heart of someone with pulmonary hypertension, ph for short...labors. ph puts unbearable stress on the heart, which can cause death from heart failure. there is no cure. and ph is often misdiagnosed as a less-threatening disease,
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john: some good news. most of the news tends to be bad but the thunder group called cuba now says there is plenty of good news. like what? >> lots, john. the island growth is unbelievable. you see it -- john: even with the american blockade? >> even with the american blockade. the entrepreneurs totaling 500,000 of the moment are being trained by other entrepreneurs on the island of this growth is real and it's spreading beyond just havana. john: right now? >> it is a decision that was made by the present united states to engage to try a new policy. john: the entrepreneurship was happening before that. most of the trade is with spain
and latin america. >> the object pretty real -- the entrepreneurial growth has been injected from cuban-americans in the u.s.. that's the first driver and then you put on top of that the presidential regulatory easements and you have a system that's currently in place right now. john: a previous guest says this is the good thing. all the money goes to the military. >> i disagree. i think there is a tangential benefit that's going to be felt by the military but when running a cost-benefit analysis which we should at least do that benefit to the cuban people is about the cuban people outweighs any tangential benefit. john: money has to go the military and the military space people laid terrible salary. >> you and i had done to keep me engaged with a taxi driver. we get them at skull at 10 u.s. dollars. that's a significant sum of
money to that individual but take air bnb. john: let's talk about that once the fastest growing business in cuba was air bnb. >> air bnb gaining traction one unlikely location, cuba. private homes like these ran for his $40 a day. the company ceo explained how air bnb rushed to cuba once a travel restrictions were lifted. >> by february via the team on the ground of that we have over 1000 homes in cuba. nearly 500 havana åland. >> i assume they can't keep the money. they are simply tax like we are taxed everywhere else in the world and air bnb has done what i like to term the ccc and i promise there's no communism in that. it's a cuban citizen cycle. air bnb provides a holistic service here in the u.s. hitting a few buttons flying down on an american airline which is going
to have, waiting faa approval. walk outside and go to a restaurant, cuba and run restaurant and there we are. john: castro when i was in college said there will be no future in this nation for private business. most of them are not and there hasn't been much. >> sure but he was wrong even before america's involvement. the canadians and europeans have been there forever and joint venture functions. the interesting question will be what u.s. companies going down there and how much longer will the u.s. companies allow for continued -- or continue to allow the jv structure? john: we know that capitalism works better than socialism but my former colleague arbor walters asked fidel castro.
>> our scioscia soloed -- socialism works in our country but i know the chinese have done if they did not have socialism they would have been able to attain the economic rough they have today. john: a lot of americans today are eager for socialism? >> the socialist vision has not panned out. other countries over the last 60 or 70 years got handouts. they been cut off now. >> if it panned out the way he would have envisioned it wouldn't play a role. it's played a significant role. john: your group cuba now does what? >> where empowered organization looking to empower the people on the island to allow them to achieve their destiny. john: technology makes that easier? air bnb and the ladies in white and incredible empowerment for
the people. >> a simple gesture in empowering some of the sillier device capturing that unfortunate moment -- cellular device. that forces the cuban government hand to address it. the regime can't control those individuals communities. they could shut it down. >> or control it less. less control is progress. john: you say obama going to cuba is a great thing. more, more, more. thank you guillermo. next how the embargo is not really an assault on castro. it's an assault on us on our own freedom.
>> and an cuba we are ending a policy that was long past its expiration date. [applause] john: that was last year you saw vice president by the plodding but speaker boehner did not. most republicans don't want to relax the embargo but i say this is one move president obama got right to the embargo has not worked and nasty dictators are firmly in power and because of our embargo they have an excuse for cuba's poverty.
it's america's fault. that's why your people suffer. it's not communism. communism is great preview are poor because of america. that's a lie but it's a lie to convince his people so our president was right when he said this. >> when what you are doing doesn't work for 50 years it's time to try something new. [applause] john: it is but what obama has done so far to relax the embargo come he made it a little easier for us to travel to cuba and use american credit cards there is some american companies will find it easier to do business in cuba and those are good changes. the bans on those things were restrictions on our freedom, americans freedom our choices. government should restrict back and it's good the government will stop but at the same time what obama did this kind of puny. we shouldn't just loosen some restrictions in some parts of
the embargo, we should dump the whole thing. it hasn't worked. it's anti-freedom. the fact that most of the embargo is still in place is not obama's fault rate he has done about everything he can legally by executive order time glad this time he didn't abuse that executive privilege with the embargo is a law passed by congress are ending it is something only congress can do. so far congress has shown little interest in that both republicans and that democrats oppose it. maybe some believe next year the embargo will finally work and the suffering cubans will throw the castro south or maybe some republicans just want to oppose obama and of course congress want to anger cuban exiles that these protesters castro stole their property. they wanted back and they want to castro's punished. cuba spends money in politics but they're not going to get their property back. 55 years of embargo hasn't worked. it does more bad than good things.
it's time to give it up. president eisenhower imposes embargo after castro confiscated american business and property. his move was meant to punish castro but also to protect americans to stop further investments so no marr more americans would lose money. the logic was it's the job of government to protect people who might be fleeced but that shouldn't be a role for government. a free country permitting individual americans from assessing risk in making our own choices is never the correct answers. it would have been better for america would have just said we will invest in cuba you are on your own. our laws can protect you. then let us make their own decisions. but that is rarely what government does. politicians always want to make decisions for us. it's time the government stop trying to protect us from ourselves and should let us travel wherever we want and do peaceful business with anyone we
choose. that's our show. see you next week. kennedy: i'm watching the president polish after his dancing shoes it's a stark contrast between an american president entertaining dying finkos and people are dying in a country plagued by a common enemy. the president looks so relaxed proving as long as you are swilling with murderers, the terrorists haven't won. this is the on the dancing we should be watching.